athlon 64 3400+

[Nate89]

ive been told by a friend that the athlon 64 3400+ is the best 64 bit because it has a 1 megabyte cache what are ur guys thoughts on this....also ive been curios since the 64 bit runs on a 1600mhz fsb how does that work since the fastest memory out there is only 633 if my memory serves me correctly....and insight u guys wanna shine on this topic would be greatly appriciated thanks

[shadow_warez]

the fsb that is 1600 is basicly amds patnented duel chanel tech, its a fsb running at 800 mhz that uses hypertransport to boost it too 1600, thiers also the 940 pin amd 64 that has duel 1000 mhz,

[Nate89]

ok but how can it run that fast if no memory runs that fast yet....and if someone would get the ddr2 633mhz would that mean it runs at 1266mhz in dual channel then?

[Dehcbad25]

Nate, it is not that trivial to run the CPU and the RAM at the same speed anymore. You have all the time FSB of 133 and RAM of 200, or viceverse. My CPU has a FSB of 166 and my RAM of 217 as an example.
Also, what arquitecture are you talking about? My info might be outdated, but Athlon 64 3400+ Runs at 2200 Mhz with a FSB of 800 (200Mhz x 4) 128 K L1 Cache and 1MB LV2, 754 pin release date January 6 2004. Those are the specs for the Clawhammer.
Also the memory access is direct not thru the chipset if that helps you.

[phishhead]

well thats the cpu I'm getting very soon along with the msi neo platitium2

[Nate89]

but what im gettin at is how can the fsb run at 2200 mhz (sry i said 1800) it just confuses the hell outta me i know the controler is on chip now but i dont get how it can run that fast ive tried researchin it but didnt find too much...if u dont know how to explain it then thats fine just tryin to learn more about the 64 bit

[Dehcbad25]

The FSB (front Side Bus) is not running at 2200Mhz. The FSB is 800Mhz (200Mhz x 4)
the 2200 Mhz is the Internal speed of the CPU itself (800 x 2.75 = 2200)
Since AMD's Athon XP and 64 can process more data per cycle than Pentium or the Socket A Athlon, AMD uses a referal number. So, more or less a AMD Athlon 64 running a 2.2 Ghz has the same speed as a Athlon (non XP) running at 3.4 Ghz (or a Pentium 4 running at 3.4 Ghz, but you did not hear this from me)
The CPU is really running at 2200 Mhz, even thought it is called 3400 (that is why the + is there. Check carefully and you won't find a MHz around the 3400)
Does it make sense now? It is to help the end users have an idea of the speed of the CPU

[Nate89]

i knew amds ran at lower speeds i myself have a 3200 which also runs at 2.2ghz but im sry i still dont get how the fsb can be 800 if no ram runs that fast yet i dont get how the whole 200x4 works yet but im tryin maybe another reply and ill get it finally

[Dehcbad25]

well, there is RAM that runs at 800 actually. And there is RAM that runs higher too. The RAM I use at my work's PC is RDRAM that runs at 800 MHz.
It is not necesay that the FSB is paired with the RAM anymore. That is why AMD and Intel came with optimizations to make the CPU do extra work like hyperthreading to take advantage of that. What happens at the cycle is that the information is synched. In other words, the CPU doesn't wait anymore for the RAM. Those were issues from the past.
Does that help? There are way too many optimizations to name them all. Intel CPUs don't run either paired with the RAM

[Nate89]

so in other words wheather u have say 400 mhz ram or ddr2 that runs at 633mhz the fsb will always be 800? and would buyin the 633 instead of havin 400 would that make any difference then or is the 633 just mostly for overclocking?

[Dehcbad25]

Getting close. With newer board regardless of the RAM it will run at the FSB speed supported by the CPU. You want the faster RAM to increase system performance, but there aren't anymore tied together, so installing slower RAM won't decrease your FSB, and lowering your FSB won't slow your RAM speed. Also a lot goes in the thouroughtput, but that is too mathematical even for me (I get dizzy when calculating those things.
If the obard supports 633 get that. If it doesn't it will run at the higher speed that the motherboard supports. Thanks all that SPD.
For example, my RAM is 433 Mhz, with timings of 2-4-4-7, but runing at 400 gives me in timings 2-3-3-6, thought the reason I lowered the speed was because I overclocked the CPU, not because I wanted lower timings.

[Nate89]

ok i think we are almost done so if u have a 64 bit and u get 633 drr2 ram then it will run at that speed swhich will increase system performance where as if u have 400 ddr it would be slower am i right? i mean that question sounds kinda stupid cause everyone knows that 633 is faster than 400 but im just makin sure i got this all straight

[Dehcbad25]

DDR 400 will run at 400 Mhz, while DDR2 633 will run at 633 MHz, so DDR633 is faster than DDR400.
But the FSB in the CPU is always the same. Using DDR2633 should give you better performance always.
But the CPU won't run faster because of the faster RAM. It will run at the same speed. It will be able to do more stuff since it has comunication with the system more often.

[Nate89]

ok i get it now thanks for all the time u just spent with me

[Dehcbad25]

No prob. I am going to bed now. U sure it is all clear?
It is not completely clear for me, so.....
I like to check a web site called shipgeek.com
It is like a databse for CPU specs and chipset specs. That was one of my dream projects, to keep a databse with all that info. I used to know every CPU spec and Video card by memory. Now the market became too complicated to do that as a hobby.

[Nate89]

ya im sure and im headed there too....that would be hard to do that as a hobby but im sure if one sey their mind to do it then they could

[Dehcbad25]

I have my mind set in way too many things :p
I am at the moment working at 4 computers at a time, so just imagine it ;)

[GimieGimieGimie]

Wow,

This has been very enlightening!

I knew nothing about how AMD work their processors, now i know :D

I personally, will be upgrading to an AMD 64 later on in the year ;)

[FastGame]

Don't confuse the 1600mhz HyperTransport as actual FSB in the same sense as you did on the non A64 system.

For a good understanding of A64, HyperTransport/FSB and Memory read This article (http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=overclocka64)

[cash_site]

Don't confuse the 1600mhz HyperTransport as actual FSB in the same sense as you did on the non A64 system.

For a good understanding of A64, HyperTransport/FSB and Memory read This article (http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=overclocka64)
Good, I was waiting for AMD Hardware Kings's comments :D

This answers the first question that Nate had in Post #1...

As an overview, all PCs have a similar arrangement, with slight twists...

A CPU has a FrontSideBus new chips have a rating of 200Mhz - however for AMD using Dual Channel Controller makes it 400Mhz - thus common DDR Memory is DDR400... now, Pentium4 still uses 200Mhz but have a Quad-pumped system so it makes 4x200=800Mhz. AMD & P4 might seem different, but really it is same since you would use the same DDR400 memory in both ;)

Now separate to this is actual Memory speeds. Since all memory is DDR now, the speeds are actually 2x the real value... you can get DDR333 and DDR400 (most common) which would run at 333 or 400 FSB (for AMD or 533/800 for P4 - but still same memory stick)... there are newer memory sticks DDR2 which have speeds 533/667 and higher, which allows a P4 to run at 1066/1333 Mhz instead of 800Mhz ;)

Optimum efficiency for CPU and Memory is to have both speeds the same ie if cpu fsb is 400Mhz (AMD), you should run memory at 400Mhz (AMD)... thus when you overclock if you increase CPU FSB you should also increase the memory speed too

Now, separate to all of this is the Speed of HyperTransport (AMD) and HyperThreading (P4)... This is the Internal Connecting speed of the 2 virtual CPUs. Not sure on P4 speed, but AMD HyperTransport started out with 800Mhz, then 1000/1200 and should be up to around 1600Mhz... this has nothing to do with CPU to Memory stick connection, just the speed that the two internal cpus talk to each ;) Obviously Higher is better ;)

[FastGame]

Nice job cash_site :thumbup:

[cash_site]

thx FG, hope i explained clearly :D

[FastGame]

You sure did cash_buddy, that MAC experience enabled you to see all sides clearly :D