gas prices

[phishhead]

man just got gas this morning in San Diego and it was $3.08 a gal. I was like WTF. So any others having gas issues.

[petard]

I suspect we'll be there by the end of the weekend.

[Reverend]

man just got gas this morning in San Diego and it was $3.08 a gal. I was like WTF. And you think thats expensive?

At todays rates its approx $8 a gallon over here. :eek:

[phishhead]

holy sh!t guess I'll stop complaining now. do you use public transportation rev. or are you pretty close to work.

[Reverend]

do you use public transportation rev. or are you pretty close to work.Fortunately the wife and i are both close to work. (about a mile)

[Reverend]

just thinking phish. Ever thought of going into the export business.

I'll buy it off you for $4 and sell it over here for $6 ;) :D

[phishhead]

maybe I'll get stripe to do it since hes white....you know with the racial profiling.

[Richard]

just thinking phish. Ever thought of going into the export business.

I'll buy it off you for $4 and sell it over here for $6 ;) :D


For the first time I filled up with £1 a litre unleaded, was not impressed at all

[FastGame]

maybe I'll get stripe to do it since hes white....you know with the racial profiling.No, how it works is a white guy (Stripe) owns the company and has someone of minority as the company president. That way you can get all the government contracts that are ear marked for minority companies, of coarse the white guy (Stripe) makes all the money...but you'll have a nice title :)

Gas here in Michigan @2.95 gal

[Reverend]

For the first time I filled up with £1 a litre unleaded, was not impressed at allYep, and about 50% of that is duty. :mad:

[zipp51]

I'm assuming that the prices for gas are for regular grade and not premium?Here in Massachusetts gas is selling for $2.85.And don't forget Phish,many Americans own gas hog SUV's and work more than 1 mile away.I work 20 miles away.I was getting away with $30/wk,now probably $40/wk.Luckily I work 3 days one wk and 4 days on the next etc.Cali is a big state to navigate for you and Stripe.How much are you guys going to spend a wk.:D

[Big Booger]

I rode my BIKE (http://www.techzonez.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14743) today (saturday) to work. It felt good to burn some calories. It was cold as balls this morning and on the jaunt back in the afternoon, much hotter. Saved some on the petrol bill.

Two days ago I filled up my tank, it was about $65 US dollars (7500 yen) in a Nissan Silvia LOL

[rik]

I'm at about $45 a week as it is...and we're only up to $2.79 so far. Of course working 7 days a week to try and make up for it.

[PIPER]

Stop complaining guy's.....my gas bill exceeds 150.00 bucks per week for both vehicles...the Titan being the hog....I use both for delivery...but the prices keep going up...currently paying $3.19 per gallon for premium....makes no sense to buy the cheap crap when for a couple bucks more I can get high test....had to start adding a delivery charge to each order to help cover costs.....this su*ks...:mad:

[rik]

Well Piper, since I am paying at least 2.79 for gas on 4 vehicles, Silverado 2500HD, Tahoe, Explorer, and a Toyota Pre-Runner I can feel the pain.

And sorry but I simply will not pay the price for Premium.

[petard]

$3.01 per gallon this weekend and I had to fill up my pick-up (27 gallon tank) - $72. Ouch.

[jan]

We're payin $3+ a gal here. I commute about 120 miles a day to work an home. We pay about $190-$200/week now for gas between me an hubby. Good thing he doesnt hav ta drive too far. :p

[bionicblond]

Where I am at is a tourist town and we will be every bit and more hovering up on $3.50 before summer is through. Right now, $2.83. I cant fill up anymore, I am just filling as a I go and trying not to go too much!:eek:

[PIPER]

Well Piper, since I am paying at least 2.79 for gas on 4 vehicles, Silverado 2500HD, Tahoe, Explorer, and a Toyota Pre-Runner I can feel the pain.

And sorry but I simply will not pay the price for Premium.

ouch.....gas hogs.....are u filling them all/driving too....or are they family rides?

[PIPER]

We're payin $3+ a gal here. I commute about 120 miles a day to work an home. We pay about $190-$200/week now for gas between me an hubby. Good thing he doesnt hav ta drive too far. :p

where in florida are u?....do u commute to one of the larger cities for work?

[Big Booger]

When the world starts paying more to drive than to eat, *which might be already for some countries* then we'll see alternate energies taking root.

[rik]

ouch.....gas hogs.....are u filling them all/driving too....or are they family rides?


They are all family vehicles and all being driven daily. The Toyota is driven the least of the 4, and all the rest are back and forth at least 50 miles a day. :(

[phishhead]

$3.19 for regular this morning. Like booger I rode my bike in yesterday to see how far it was from the new house. Its 12miles round trip. So I think I might start using flinstone power to get to work. seems like the cheapest solution. and its good for me. ;)

[FastGame]

Gas went down here :D from $2.95 to $2.86 :)

Do you guys have paved roads ? I can't ride a bike cuz I'll get stuck in the mud :(

[phishhead]

damn FG haven't seen $2.86 in along time. You gotta get those big Ol' mud tires and an electric bike.;)

[rik]

Yes FG, We have paved roads...and indoor plumbing ;)

[Reverend]

Fuel Prices Have U.S. Workers Eyeing Telecommuting (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1954274,00.asp)

[Nikto]

Am I allowed to comment on the possible reasons for the increased prices, given that no-one else has done so, and given that posts of a political nature are not allowed? Nothing political here, just some facts, but we'll see...

The US and its allies (such as they were) launched an attack on a country (Iraq) sitting on the world's fifth largest oil reserves. The US is now threatening another country (Iran) sitting on the world's fourth largest oil reserves with a pre-emptive nuclear strike. And now, oil prices are rising. Who'da thunk??

Source for reserves data: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2178rank.html

Move along people, nothing to see here.

[Big Booger]

Am I allowed to comment on the possible reasons for the increased prices, given that no-one else has done so, and given that posts of a political nature are not allowed? Nothing political here, just some facts, but we'll see...

The US and its allies (such as they were) launched an attack on a country (Iraq) sitting on the world's fifth largest oil reserves. The US is now threatening another country (Iran) sitting on the world's fourth largest oil reserves with a pre-emptive nuclear strike. And now, oil prices are rising. Who'da thunk??

Source for reserves data: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2178rank.html

Move along people, nothing to see here.

I think that is part of the problem, but I think (and this surprise me about you Nikto) that you are forgetting a certain Group(s) (http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/thedebate/2006/04/oilprofitsfacts.html).

As well as other reasons:

http://www.sierraclub.org/pressroom/releases/pr2005-07-26a.asp

And of course there's:
The China Factor (http://www.iags.org/china.htm) all of which also contribute to increased prices *as well as an untold number of other little odds and ends that help contribute.

[Nikto]

I know full well there is more than one reason behind increased oil prices, but attacking one, and threatening to nuke another, of the countries which have some of the largest reserves in the world certainly doesn't help. Of course increased demand also has a lot to do with it. The piece from the Sierra Club you linked to contains the following:
58%:
Total U.S. dependence on net imports of foreign oil in 2005. Up from 44.5% in 1995. (EIA)
And:
Federal officials project that by 2025, the country will have to import 68 percent of its oil to meet demand.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/25/AR2005072501707.html
On Tuesday, Al Hubbard, the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy, and Director of the National Economic Council, said this:
What's really most important, though, is that we've become less reliable on overseas sources of crude oil and other sources of energy, and more reliant on energy from within our 50 states [sic].
Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/04/20060425-9.html
You think Director Hubbard might be, er, lying through his teeth?

[Big Booger]

I know full well there is more than one reason behind increased oil prices, but attacking one, and threatening to nuke another, of the countries which have some of the largest reserves in the world certainly doesn't help. Of course increased demand also has a lot to do with it. The piece from the Sierra Club you linked to contains the following:

And:

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/25/AR2005072501707.html
On Tuesday, Al Hubbard, the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy, and Director of the National Economic Council, said this:

Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/04/20060425-9.html
You think Director Hubbard might be, er, lying through his teeth?

I think increased demand has a more profound impact on prices than any "threat" from the US. After all, we purchase this oil from these countries that we threaten... Venezuela is also one of our sources of oil and Hugo Chavez repeatedly and openly attacks the US and US policies (some he is dead on about, whilst others prove he's a whack job).. and yet he continues to supply the US with crude.

I do think, that Mr. Hubbard is a loon.. senility catching on or something like that.

As I said before, until the price of gasoline is unbearable, then I don't think many countries will seriously pursue alternate energies, and the US being the top consumer of oil in the world, should break from that mold and vigorously get jiggy with some R&D. I think the time is prime for expansion of bio-diesel, hydrogen, and other sources of fuel.

[blackhat]

Hydrogen is pretty much out of the picture unless you can produce it in the vehicle only at the rate that the engine can use it. Compressed H2 is simply to dangerous to transport around in 250 million vehicles. Compressed Flammable Gases are restricted from all tunnels, Parking Decks and critical bridges. You can tolerate a small gasoline leak in your garage(just a pain that you have to get fixed),.. an overnite hydrogen leak in your garage can make a very, very big bomb.
Ethanol makes a good feedstock for Semi-permeable membrane proton separator feul cells. The cell makes electricity which then runs the car. We can grow the ETOH and it is as easy to handle as gasoline. My current choice.

DRB

[blackhat]

I don't want to leave the impression that this system dosen't have it's problems. For an electric motor to generate 100HP, it would need to consume about 74kw of power. If the electric motor was designed to run at 240volts, it would draw about 300amps,.. a truly lethal set of numbers under your hood. If you got into a wreck and shorted out the power supply, it would light up the night. Metal would vaporize. I just don't know a good solution to our dependence on oil. DRB

[Big Booger]

I don't want to leave the impression that this system dosen't have it's problems. For an electric motor to generate 100HP, it would need to consume about 74kw of power. If the electric motor was designed to run at 240volts, it would draw about 300amps,.. a truly lethal set of numbers under your hood. If you got into a wreck and shorted out the power supply, it would light up the night. Metal would vaporize. I just don't know a good solution to our dependence on oil. DRB

All fine points as to why more money should be spent on R&D for these products instead of wasting it exploring for oil in Federal Reservations like in the North Shore of Alaska.

Our dependency on oil is coming to an end in the next 100-200 years... why not cut the head off the snake and be proactive rather than reactive?

We are killing ourselves, nature, and the earth with our dependency on fossil fuels.

Hydrogen is dangerous -- yes in the current form.. but so is gasoline:

http://www.pyrocool.org/images/Training/car_fire.jpg

http://www.spanishlakefd.com/nss-folder/photogalleryno9/car%20fire.jpg

http://www.elkhorncity.net/firedepartment/home/car%20fire%20004.jpg

Sure Hydrogen is more explosive, but I think there are ways to fix that... and it is because we are not pouring billions of dollars into that research that we are still filling up on unleaded at the gas pump.

Ethanol can be used as a gasoline substitute or even an additive:

Will my vehicle run on ethanol-blended fuel?
All vehicles are "ethanol-capable" and can use a blend of up to 10% ethanol. This "E10" is a blend of 10%
ethanol / 90% unleaded gasoline and is the most common way ethanol is sold to motorists. Since the 1980s, all
automakers have covered the use of up to 10% ethanol under warranty, and no engine modifications are
necessary to use E10. E10 is a cleaner burning fuel than straight gasoline.

Can ethanol blends be used in small engines, such as boats, lawnmowers, or chainsaws?
Yes. Manufacturers of small engines realize that up to a 10% blend of ethanol is very common in gasoline, so
they make their engines compatible with this fuel.

And then there is another that utilizes far more ethanol to move you:


What is E85? How do I know if my vehicle can use it?
E85 is not gasoline, but rather an alternative fuel comprised of 85% ethanol / 15% unleaded gasoline for use in
Flexible Fuel Vehicles (FFVs). These vehicles are truly "flexible" in that their owners have a choice whether to
use E85, any blend of ethanol up to that 85% level, or straight unleaded gasoline. On some models this comes
as an option, and on some it is a standard feature.

To identify whether a vehicle is flexible fuel, check the owners manual and inside the gas cap. Also, visit
www.ethanol.org/e85.html to link to a complete list of FFVs, including the new '06 model year vehicles.


Can my vehicle run on E85 even if it's not an FFV?
If your vehicle is not an FFV, use of any higher ethanol percentage than 10% is not covered by warranty. People
have reported that they blend higher percentages of ethanol in regular, unmodified vehicles. A pilot study
conducted earlier this year suggests that up to 30% ethanol could be used in a non-flex fuel vehicle, but more
research is required on this subject and we as an organization do not endorse this practice until further study is
done.


Now I ask, why are not all 2007 models required to utilize this E85 type? You can then choose either E85 or regular fuel... and then slowly force gasoline stations to add E85 over the course of 4-8 years until the infrastructure is proven and reliable.

85% from ethanol and 15% from oil would make a huge impact on our foreign policy, environment, and wallets (I am assuming that the more ethanol is used the cheaper it will become) and it is renewable (grow more corn= more fuel for your car (perhaps home growers could even grow their own fuel and refine it at home--- think years in the future).

[PIPER]

Blackhat....great post man....u seem smarter than the average bear...what be your career choice...if u don't mind my asking.....:)

[Tanglefoot]

I'm another who can't fill up anymore. Over £1 per litre in Manchester (UK) & got a 66 litre tank in my Saab. Luckily work locally, if I had to commute like some of you guys 25% plus of my wage would go on petrol :eek:

[phishhead]

man think I'm gonna be forced to ride my bike in to work. drove by the gas station this morning. $3.25 for gal. of reg. $3.46 for premium. This is just getting completely out of hand.

[blackhat]

The corn has to be planted, grown, harvested, fermented in a batch process, pressed to separate the liquor from a huge amount of solids. The resulting liquid contains about 8-12% Etoh (the yeast dies at this alcohol concentration) which has to be distilled giving about 90% Etoh and 10% water. Ethanol really wants this 10% water. If you take it out, the Etoh will always be trying to get it back, even absorbing it from the atmosphere.
One of the States down around EFC currently requires that all gas sold in the state contain 10% Etoh.(Good Job!)
Acidity seems to be the major complaint causing problems in the tank, lines, filters, pressure regulator, Carb/injectors, and cylinders.
I believe all of these problems can be overcome and the cost of using Etoh will be much less than gasoline if only we could get the industry to change.


Piper, I'm a carpenter with a BSChE. Every single job I've gone after (Probably a thousand) I hear the same thing- " Why,. you're way over-qualified for such a menial position. You'd never be happy here." My response- "Please make me unhappy here. I've grown accustomed to having a roof over my head!" I get my hands on consulting projects from time to time, but nothing that commands a decent wage yet. DRB

[Big Booger]

A related article (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/04/a_braytoncycle_.html#more)

If we only did R&D using HALF the US military budget, we'd cure this oil consumption issue.

[blackhat]

It's a good article (I've studied hundreds like it). Fabulous adaptation of existing technology frought with the same problems as all the others (higher temps, Higher RPMs, etc). A full 50% of the problem is who can process and deliver the fuel(etoh)?
Sadly, we as individuals are also stuck on our end. We can only vote, encourage, and promote whenever possible. How can we get the Bohemeth to move? DRB

[Fenalaar]

If you've got a diesel, you can run it on biodiesel or used or straight veggie oil.

Especially older diesels are easy to convert. Modern common rail diesels are a bit more problematic.

I have an old Mercedes G-wagon with a diesel engine (300GD), and I get around 22 mpg ot ouf the city and 16mpg in the city. that's quite good compared to the newer gas versions which can be as bad as 12mpg. I don't think I'd like to pay the gas bills for one of those. The newer diesel versions (G270CDI) get around the same as mine with a lot more horsepower. The diesels aren't sold in the US these days.

If you can, go with a diesel engine - they use far less fuel than gasoline engines, and these days, they are not the stinking, smoking slowpokes they used to be. ( Mine is a slowpoke, though. What do you expect from a 20 year old car ;) )

Johan-Kr

[cash_site]

i agree a lot of european car manufacturers are investing and developing great diesel powered engines/cars... I would seriously consider any Audi/VW TDi motor, with almost same HP as petrol, but 2x Torque and excellent fuel economy!

I'm also starting to see more Gas stations supply Ethanol based fuel, i run e5 (i think 5% - compared to e10 = 10%), in an old 'leaded' car. The engine doesnt ping/knock, and i get reasonable mileage (its way out of tune anyway)... the best part tho, is its way cheaper than normal gas!

[blackhat]

BB, I've heard from 3 unrelated sources that next year's Indie 500 is going to be fueled entirely with ETOH. Can this possibly be true? Does anyboby know for sure? If so, it will really give a "shot in the arm" for ETOH as a transportation feul. If not, it is certainly a positive rumor to promote for the coming year.
BTW- I hope these comments are lucid. I haven't had any alcohol for abt two months and I just drank 2 pints. DRB

[PIPER]

sigh....today....I bought a horse.....:rolleyes:

[Big Booger]

BB, I've heard from 3 unrelated sources that next year's Indie 500 is going to be fueled entirely with ETOH. Can this possibly be true? Does anyboby know for sure?

You know Blackhat, I think Denyse would definitely know this! I think it would be interesting. I wonder how it will work out. *I do know that the smell of ETOH is far different from gasoline.

My father used to use a type of ethanol mix by the name brand "turbo blue" in his late model dirt track racecar:
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/3655/img6019single2je.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And it sure smelled far different from his street stock days:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/2572/vl05cd701992rm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Fun days them were.

[blackhat]

I think Denyse has a comfortable office setup over in "Fun Stuff"- cant get her to come out very often. Probably have to post there or PM to get her attention.
I cant imagine an entrenched group accepting such a radical change. Man! That would be Huge! Dont know what fuel they are using now (Nitro-Methane?). In any event, this rumor is worth keeping afloat. DRB

[blackhat]

Piper, If you're referring to my 'speed of light' comment, It really is the Speed Limit. DRB

[Big Booger]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12740848/

Looks like you where right! :D

[Denyse]

This was the LAST year for Methanol(90%)/Ethenol(10%) fuel..

Next year it is Ethenol only 100%

I along with a lot of others, questioned this, as from what we read at the track (their information release) that Methenol is a renewable source, while Ethenol is not... though there is a lot of CORN around the midwest.

I filled out a form, at the track, asking to be contacted as soon as conversion kits are available for the hybrid fuel conversion.

Hope that all helps.

[jan]

Saudis: Oil Prices Could Plummet
With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story...

Saudi Arabia's oil minister warned Arab producers Sunday not to expect continued growth in prices and demand for oil.

Ali al-Naimi said prices could plummet if an economic crisis drives industrialized nations to find other sources of energy, citing the 1980s - when oil prices dropped by 80 percent after such nations reduced their dependency on oil and turned to alternative energy sources.

"Global economic growth may not continue at the same good momentum for years to come," al-Naimi said at the opening of a four-day conference of Arab energy ministers in Amman. "We should be careful and not take expectations as indisputable, especially the continuation of big demand for oil and its prices remaining at the same level or increasing," he said.

Al-Naimi also cited the Asian economic crisis of 1997-1998, when oil prices fell by 50 percent, slowing Arab oil production.

"Some are even concerned about a looming economic problem because of the increased policies of economic protectionism, or what is known as economic nationalism," al-Naimi said, referring to Western countries' determination to become less dependent on Middle Eastern oil.

More:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/5/...5932.shtml?s=lh (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/5/15/115932.shtml?s=lh)

[phishhead]

Well Jan I filled up yesterday at $3.19 a gal. so it went down significantly over that last few weeks.

[cash_site]

We just hit a record $1.50 / litre, the other day... gone our the days of filling 15 gallons for $10, now its $15 for 5 gallons!! :eek:

I also read that Iran will cut production if USA 'starts' anything over their Nuclear Product program...

[Conan]

Prices have been going up weekly over here!:(

[rik]

And I complain with it at 2.69 a gallon... :o

[prankphonecall]

In 5 years Australia prices have gone from 40-60c/L to $1.40/L

GRRRRR!

[joshsiao]

All fine points as to why more money should be spent on R&D for these products instead of wasting it exploring for oil in Federal Reservations like in the North Shore of Alaska.

Our dependency on oil is coming to an end in the next 100-200 years... why not cut the head off the snake and be proactive rather than reactive?


Petroleum is also used in the petrochemical industry. Its needed for roads. Its needed to make plastics. (Think of all the plastics that you use from medicines to spacecraft). I fact, they are using so much for plastics that they have to even turn to the destructive distillation of coal for the hydrocarbons to make plastics just to keep up plastic demand We can only cut our dependance on oil through turning other applications towards alternative sources eg Power Plants can go nuclear or cars can use biodisel.
We can only stop using oil when we have found a way to synthesize plastics cheaply from other means than using petroleum. The rise in petrol prices are tied to the rise in crude oil. The average yield of octane from the petroleum fraction is also not enough for consumption demand that they have to break parts of the higher fractions to octane.

We can only reduce our dependance on oil for running our power and our cars but I have yet to see them talk about plastics. Don't forget that not all plastics are recyclable unlike metal.