Ok Vista beta testers-question ?

[FastGame]

Do you like Vista ? Hows the PC running ? Is it better than XP ? You going to use Vista when its released or stick with XP ?

[rik]

1) not really

2) seems to run ok with 1gb RAM

3) Better? not to me. Only thing I REALLY like is the Snipping Tool. It ROCKS!

4) I'll not be running it at home. XP and my Linux distros are doing just fine.

[Big Booger]

1) It's a yes and no. I like some things about it, but not all.

2) I have it running on a PIII 1ghz with 512MB ram, and it runs fine.

3) Better, I dunno. I say it is different. The interface is getting changed. I like how they do "All Programs" and the control panel. It seems to work better amongst other things.

4) If I can get a cheap version, OEM or educational etc.. I will switch otherwise XP and Xandros all the way.

[piaqt]

1, 3 and 4: Yup. It's faster and more nimble.
2: Just fine.

[phishhead]

I'm still up in the air. Looks cool but think theres alittle to much fluff. Let you know more when I get use to where everything is.

[d000hg]

A: Are you guys using Aero in your evaluations?
B: What is the "snipping tool"?

[rik]

"Snipping Tool" explained:

http://windows.about.com/b/a/257701.htm

with screenshots:

http://desktoppub.about.com/od/screencaptures/ig/Snipping-Tool/index.htm

[piaqt]

How do I access it? I found the executable buried in C:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft-windows-tabletpc-snippingtool_31bf3856ad364e35_6.0.5744.16384_none_e34198ab18ab8a06. But it just lays there like a dead fish. Do I need a tablet pc to run it?

[Reverend]

1. Yes.
2. Running fine (with aero).
3. Too soon to say.
4. Driver availability is still a bit thin so i will continue to dual-boot with XP.

[Reverend]

How do I access it?Should be under Start > Programs > Accessories.

[Curio]

1. Yes, what's not to like?
2. Fine
3. Yes
4. I use lots of OSes.

[Big Booger]

I wasn't using Aero as my graphics card a TI4200 doesn't support it on my old PIII machine.

What's not to like? I think Vista is much slower on older hardware. The constant popups that require you to click a button before making changes to the system are annoying (you can disable this, but it's still annoying)... That said it is a "security feature" so perhaps this annoyance will be worth it.

As Reverend stated, driver support isn't as good as XP, software support is also suffering (though software makers are rushing out beta Vista versions).

For reference of troubles:

http://www.iexbeta.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_Vista_RC_1_Software_Compatibility_List

There are bugs as well, but then this is still Beta software.

Vista just looks like a reworked or refined XP. It will take time to get used to some of the changes. Like how the control panel is layed out, how to change some settings, access features and so on. But it is not so dramatic that you'll cringe in fear.

One other gripe I had was with the shutdown. I have had the habit of clicking the lock button for shutdown, but in Vista it puts your PC to sleep instead. You have to click another right arrow list button to pull out the expanded shutdown options, and there you click shutdown to completely shutdown the machine. I don't like that. It's like Microsoft want you to put your machine to sleep rather than completely shut it down....

[piaqt]

Should be under Start > Programs > Accessories.
I checked under Windows Features. It wasn't installed. Oops.

[Curio]

All OSes are much slower on older hardware. All software has bugs. Every time an OS is released it doesn't support all legacy soft or hardware. It's the same thing every time, usually there are good reasons for this like increased security or functions. Reworked XP, like XP was reworked 2000, like 2000 was reworked NT? I don't understand your misgivings.

[Big Booger]

All OSes are much slower on older hardware. All software has bugs. Every time an OS is released it doesn't support all legacy soft or hardware. It's the same thing every time, usually there are good reasons for this like increased security or functions. Reworked XP, like XP was reworked 2000, like 2000 was reworked NT? I don't understand your misgivings.



WINDOWS 2000
Minimum Requirements
Computer/Processor 133 MHz or higher Pentium-compatible CPU.
Memory At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM; more memory generally improves responsiveness.
Hard Disk 2 GB with 650 MB free space.
CPU Support Windows 2000 Professional supports single and dual CPU systems.
Drive CD-ROM or DVD drive.
Display VGA or higher resolution monitor.
Keyboard Required.

WINDOWS XP PRO
Here's What You Need to Use Windows XP Professional
•

PC with 300 megahertz or higher processor clock speed recommended; 233 MHz minimum required (single or dual processor system);* Intel Pentium/Celeron family, or AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible processor recommended
•

128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance and some features)
•

1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available hard disk space*
•

Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher-resolution video adapter and monitor
•

CD-ROM or DVD drive
•

Keyboard and Microsoft Mouse or compatible pointing device



WINDOWS VISTA
Windows Vista Minimum Supported System Requirements
Processor
800 MHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1
System Memory
512 MB
GPU
SVGA (800x600)
Graphics Memory
-
HDD
20 GB
HDD Free Space
15 GB
Optical Drive
CD-ROM drive2
Audio
-
Internet
-

That's quite a jump. And that's the bare minimum.

How do you go from 1.5 GB of hard disk space to 15GB???? And from 128MB of ram to 512MB???? And from a processor speed of 233mhz to 800mhz????

Please tell me why an Operating System needs 15GB of space? And at the bare minimum you don't get the aero effects as well.

[egghead]

yes moving to Windows Vista as soon as openvpn works like XP.....

dam, are you really going to miss out on Directx 10 and the games????

Egghead

[Curio]

If you use an old PC then use an old OS - the OS that was designed for that level of hardware. New OSes are designed to accomodate features and abilities of modern hardware and future hardware. I don't see a problem.

[Reverend]

New OSes are designed to accomodate features and abilities of modern hardware and future hardware. I don't see a problem.Who is that directed at?

I didn't say it was a problem, i merely stated that driver support at the moment is limited, but of course this will be resolved with the official release. I accept that generally any new OS will have these issues.

Fortunately my system is way above the "recommended minimum". :)

As i said earlier i dual boot it with XP. I use Vista as my main OS but retain the XP option just incase there are any problems.

[Big Booger]

If you use an old PC then use an old OS - the OS that was designed for that level of hardware. New OSes are designed to accomodate features and abilities of modern hardware and future hardware. I don't see a problem.
New OSes should also be able to accomodate older hardware as well. After all for an OS to be successful it should be installed on as many machines as possible.... To force a customer to upgrade their entire system to suit the OS seems more like Apple than Microsoft.

The problem lies in the millions of old computers that will go into the landfill because they won't run on Windows Vista. If you don't see a problem in that you need to take a visit to one of the "recycling centers" for PC material in China Pakistan, or India...

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/press/releases/toxic-technology-contaminates

[phishhead]

well just got the 64bit vista from our works msdn. gonna install that probably tomorrow and see how much faster or more stable it is.

[Curio]

New OSes should also be able to accomodate older hardware as well. After all for an OS to be successful it should be installed on as many machines as possible.... To force a customer to upgrade their entire system to suit the OS seems more like Apple than Microsoft.

The problem lies in the millions of old computers that will go into the landfill because they won't run on Windows Vista. If you don't see a problem in that you need to take a visit to one of the "recycling centers" for PC material in China Pakistan, or India...

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/press/releases/toxic-technology-contaminates

Oh well we can disagree then. Last time I looked no-one was being forced to run Vista.

[Big Booger]

Back to the topic. I just installed 5744, on the same PIII 1.0ghz machine with 512MB of ram, and the install went well. However it took forever.

The machine boots fine, sees all the hardware and works great. I will be testing it a bit more tonight but so far so good.

[PIPER]

I'm with Rev on this one.....:D

[PIPER]

Who is that directed at?

I didn't say it was a problem, i merely stated that driver support at the moment is limited, but of course this will be resolved with the official release. I accept that generally any new OS will have these issues.

Fortunately my system is way above the "recommended minimum". :)

As i said earlier i dual boot it with XP. I use Vista as my main OS but retain the XP option just incase there are any problems.

again I am with the Rev.....

[rik]

:kissass:





:msnwink:

[Gary]

I have been testing various builds ogf Vista for the last 7 months and I do planto upgrade to it maybe by next July.

[egghead]

yes moving to Windows Vista as soon as openvpn works like XP.....



got openvpn working fine and love the OS.

only problem left is that I do not know how to add all my outlook messages and settings from the other hard drived to the new outlook in vista.

once i can do that i will no longer need to reboot to other hard drive to check my mail.

[bionicblond]

That's quite a jump. And that's the bare minimum.

How do you go from 1.5 GB of hard disk space to 15GB???? And from 128MB of ram to 512MB???? And from a processor speed of 233mhz to 800mhz????

Please tell me why an Operating System needs 15GB of space? And at the bare minimum you don't get the aero effects as well.
wow that is a jump... I think it is to force cheap people like myself to purchase better systems in order to use the internet. I mean if I am getting this all correctly, they won't be offering support in 2008 so a person like myself using a system that is unable to make the jump will effectively be shut out.

[Curio]

Please people get over this forcing you to use Vista rubbish, nobody is forcing anybody to use Vista. If you have older hardware you can use a myriad of OSes which will operate just fine on it.

[piaqt]

But then they'd have to find another dead horse to beat.

[Big Booger]

wow that is a jump... I think it is to force cheap people like myself to purchase better systems in order to use the internet. I mean if I am getting this all correctly, they won't be offering support in 2008 so a person like myself using a system that is unable to make the jump will effectively be shut out.
and you're not alone. There are millions of people out there that will want to upgrade the OS but not the hardware, but will be forced to upgrade the hardware to have the opportunity to upgrade the OS. That's going to create a lot of waste too. Especially on the corporate level.

[phishhead]

boog is right at my work we're already auditing our dept to see what hardware that will be retired. when we made the jump to xp my company must've dontated about 1200 pc's and latops to local charities around town. We've also created a vmware virtual network to see how vista will work in our environment. This release is going to fill alot of peoples pockets robbing from the poor. Me included.

[Big Booger]

boog is right at my work we're already auditing our dept to see what hardware that will be retired. when we made the jump to xp my company must've dontated about 1200 pc's and latops to local charities around town. We've also created a vmware virtual network to see how vista will work in our environment. This release is going to fill alot of peoples pockets robbing from the poor. Me included.

How do you prep the hard drives when you donate them to charity?

[bionicblond]

Please people get over this forcing you to use Vista rubbish, nobody is forcing anybody to use Vista. If you have older hardware you can use a myriad of OSes which will operate just fine on it.
not necessarily, you know once they establish Vista as the standard, websites will begin to cater to the minimum that they have established. It easy for those of you who have systems capable of this to not notice it, but for those of us that don't we will be forced to purchase a system that meets this "new" minimum an incidentally uses Vista.

But then they'd have to find another dead horse to beat.

So, no it isn't a dead horse, its fact. And when it happens, if I am still able to access Techzonez, I will make a point to find this thread and point out the problems this "new" minimum has caused for me.

[Curio]

Firefox works on Windows 98,Me,2000,XP,Linux,Macintosh etc...
How many Windows NT or 98 boxes could run XP properly? 98 came out in 1998 and xp in 2001 - only 3 years difference. Now we are talking about 5+ years difference and a lot of hardware changes, 64 bit processors, SATA, SAS, Flat panels the list is endless.

There is nothing unfair or unusual going on here. You might 'want' to 'upgrade' to Vista but you do not have to. Lots of people still happily use Windows 98, 2000, MacOS8.5,9 Suse9 etc...

Feed the Beast or not the choice actually IS yours.

[phishhead]

boogs we you some DOD cleaner on bartPE cd.

[rik]

Feed the Beast or not the choice actually IS yours.



He is correct. I'll be using XP for years here at home before making the jump to Veeeeesta. :cool:

[Big Booger]

boogs we you some DOD cleaner on bartPE cd.

Machine by machine or on a network? If you did it machine by machine that must have taken a long ass time.

[Denyse]

I put the new beta on a laptop that would never work correctly with a wifi card. It now works perfectly. Thus I am happy enough.

[piaqt]

Machine by machine or on a network? If you did it machine by machine that must have taken a long ass time.

And you would know from long asses.

[phishhead]

Machine by machine or on a network? If you did it machine by machine that must have taken a long ass time.

we have this box that you hook up the master image and can blast like 10-15 hard drives at once. So we use that to boot from the bartpe cd and wipe them 10 drives at a time. it is very time consuming I know the guy thats doing it was been doing it for a few weeks now inbetween his other duties.

[Big Booger]

I saw some help desks peeps at my uni upgrading from windows 95 to windows 98se. They had put CDs in every computer and were running from each one to reinstall the OSes.... I thought man that's gotta suck. They had to do 5 computer labs like that...

Even at 10 hard disks at a time, with 100s or 1000s of computers, that would take forever.. because each time probably takes 12-24 hours to format using the DoD methods. :)

[Curio]

I have Vista 5744 now running on this machine - Xeon 2.8, QuadroFx Graphics, 2Gb Ram, 160Gb SATA2 - BASE Score 4.5. It is nice and Aero is cool, Aero didn't work on my laptop. It's the machine that used to have 8 screens on it (twin Xentera GT4 PCI-E's) but I ditched them at last.

[Curio]

In IE you used to be able to click edit>find in page and search the page for a word or phrase - this was a great feature and saved a lot of time when trawling the net for stuff. It doesn't appear to exist in IE7 - you can't search the page for what you are looking for - you gatta read it, eeeeew! IE7 is therefore useless to man or beast - well maybe not useless, but stoooooopid.


oops! They built it into the LiveSearch bar so it is there after all and it is in fact me that is Stooooopido!

[piaqt]

Or Ctrl-F.

[bhxtyrant]

I don't have vista but ctrl+F seems to work perfectly fine in IE7 final.I just tested to be sure.